HolySpiritMessiahOTvsNT

The Reception of God's Holy Spirit:

How the Hebrew Prophets _contradict_ Christianity's Teachings

Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld y de la Torre, M.A. Ed.

Please click here for this website's most important article: Why the Bible Cannot be the Word of God.

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If you are a Christian please click here for my "Second-most important article" which identifies the Hellenistic Greek (non-Hebraic) concepts and motifs appearing in the New Testament, said concepts being "the reason" why the New Testament _challenges, denies and refutes_ Judaism's interpretations of the Old Testament regarding God's relationship with man.

29 Dec. 2002

Updates and revisions: through 01 March 2007

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This article in a nutshell:

The "point" of this article is to show that Ezekiel's notion of what the Holy Spirit's powers were are very different from Christianity's teachings. He does _not_ understand that because a person possesses the Holy Spirit that the Law, Commandments, Ordinances and Statutes of Moses are thereby done away with as is taught by Christianity. He understands the possession of the Holy Spirit guarantees that _all_ the Laws, Commandments, Ordinances and Statutes of Moses will be scrupiously kept by the individual _not_ done away with and ignored as taught by Christianity.

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My studies of late have been exploring the different understandings regarding God's Holy Spirit, which differ between the prophets of the Old Testament and Christianity as presented in the New Testament.

Christians apparently understand that the words of the prophets are not theirs, but that of the Holy Spirit sent by God:

2 Peter 1:20-21 RSV

"First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but by men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

Apparently "the Holy Spirit" speaking via the prophet Ezekiel has the following to say about what happens to an individual who has received God's Holy Spirit:

Ezekiel 11:19-20 RSV

"And I will give them one heart, and PUT A NEW SPIRIT WITHIN THEM; I will take the stony heart out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, THAT THEY MAY WALK IN MY STATUTES AND KEEP MY ORDINANCES AND OBEY THEM; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God."

Ezekiel 36:26-27 RSV

" A new heart I will give you, and A NEW SPIRIT I WILL PUT WITHIN YOU and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I WILL PUT _MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU_ AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES and BE CAREFUL TO OBSERVE MY ORDINANCES."

Deuteronomy 26:17

"...YOU WILL walk in his ways, and keep his STATUTES and his COMMANDMENTS and his ORDINANCES, and will obey his voice..."

Paul, who claims to possess God's Holy Spirit, informs his Christian converts that they are _not_ to observe God's commandments, statutes and ordinances as Christ's death has abolished this need.

Ephesians 2:14-15 RSV

"For he [Jesus] is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, by ABOLISHING in his flesh the LAW of COMMANDMENTS and ORDINANCES..."

How interesting that the present day controversy about the removing of images of the Ten Commandments from public buildings should outrage some Christians -apparently they are unaware according to Paul- that Christ's death has abolished the observance of these commandments for Christians.

If Christians attempt to obey God's Commandments, Statutues and Ordinances they are accused of nullifying not only Christ's sacrifice, but foolishly attempting to "establish their own righteousness" before the law:

Philippians 3:8-9 RSV

"For his sake [Christ's] I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as refuse, in order that I may gain Christ; and be found in him, _not having a righteousness of my own, based on law_, but that which is through faith in Christ..."

Colossians 2:13

"...God... having forgiven us all our trespasses, having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross...Therefore let no no one pass judgement on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath."

Paul argues that faith is reckoned as righteousness, claiming Abraham's example. Strangely _overlooked by Paul_ is another verse in Genesis that indicates the promise made Abraham was not because of his faith but because of _his works_, he obeyed God and KEPT God's commandments, statutes and laws. Paul also "_"overlooks"_ another very important passage which states unequivocably that if Israel attempts to obey the Law, it will be reckoned as righteousness to them by God. This is an extremely important passage. Why? Because Christians understand that ALL of Holy Writ is God-inspired via the Holy Spirit who inspires mortal men to write down God's message. Christianity in DENYING the obeying of God's commandments, statutes, and laws by claiming that Christ's death abolishes the Law, is in effect saying the Holy Spirit was in error in equating righteousness with an attempt to obey the Law.

Romans 4:1-3, 13 RSV

"For what does scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness...The promise to Abraham and his descendants, that they should inherit the world, did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. If it is the adherents of the law who are to be heirs, faith is null and the promise is void."

Romans 9:30-32 RSV

"What shall we say then? That gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is righteousness through faith; but that Israel who pursued the righteousness which is based on law did not succeed in fulfilling that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it through faith, but as it were based on works. They have stumbled..."

Romans 13:8-10 RSV

"...he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law..."You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Romans 10:1-4 RSV

"...they [Israel, the Jews] have a zeal for God but it is not enlightened. For being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God [via Christ], and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law, that everyone who has faith may be justified...if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For man believes with his heart and is so justified, and he confesses with his lips and is so saved."

Ge 15:5-6 RSV (God speaking to Abraham)

"Then he said to him, "So shall your descendants be." And he believed the Lord; and he reckoned it to him as righteousness."

Ge 26:3- RSV (God speaking to Isaac at Gerar in the Negev):

"...and I will fufil the oath which I swore to Abraham your father. I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give to your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall bless themselves: _BECAUSE_ Abraham _OBEYED_ my voice and _KEPT_ MY CHARGE, _KEPT_ MY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES, AND MY LAWS."

Please note that God does not say he is going to fufil his oath because of Abraham's "righteousness or faith", but because he OBEYED God and KEPT his charge, commandments, statutes and laws.

De 6:24-25 (RSV)

"And the Lord COMMANDED US TO DO _ALL_ THESE STATUTES, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as at this day. AND IT WILL BE RIGHTEOUSNESS FOR US, IF WE ARE CAREFUL TO DO ALL THIS COMMANDMENT before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us."

Please note that the text does NOT say "it will be righteousness for us" if we possess the faith of Abraham. It is works, NOT faith alone, that secures righteousness. James seems to agree that faith without works is dead:

James 2:17-24 RSV

"So faith by itself, if it has no works is dead...WAS NOT ABRAHAM OUR FATHER_JUSTIFIED_BY_WORKS_, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness"...You see that _A_MAN_IS_JUSTIFIED_BY_WORKS_ and NOT BY FAITH ALONE...For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."

Also note that in De 6:24-25 "righteousness" secures Israel's LIVES, she will NOT be destroyed or killed by her flesh-and-blood enemies (Canaanites, Edomites, Ammonites, Philistines) versus the Christian notion that Christians will NOT be spared from their enemies, they are to willingly lay down their lives as martyrs emulating their lord and master, Christ; their reward will be _after death_ when they obtain immortality in a resurrection from the dead.

How can the Holy Spirit be "real" if it contradicts itself, telling us via Ezekiel that when an individual has God's Holy Spirit, God causes the individual "to walk in" [obey] his statutes, ordinances and laws, versus Paul's declaration these are not to be obeyed or observed ?

I note that some verses in the New Testament speak of Christians obeying Christ's "commandments," but the contexts suggest that these are _not_ the 10 Commandments presented in the Old Testament by Moses. Rather, the "commandments of Christ" appear to relate to showing love to one's fellow Christian brethren, giving generously of one's wealth for the needs of the less fortunate Christian brotherhood, and abstaining from the lusts, greeds, passions of "the non-Christian world."

Another "anomaly" is that Ezekiel understood that the bestowal of God's Holy Spirit was a "guarantee" that Israel would _never ever_ violate his Commandments, Statutes and Ordinances, thus insuring they would dwell forever in the Promised Land. God's in-dwelling Spirit would see to a wholehearted compliance on his people's part for all generations. Ezekiel does not envision God "testing" _anymore_ his people's loyalty to him, for now his Holy Spirit is in them.

Contra Ezekiel, Christianity does NOT see the Holy Spirit as capable of assuring never-ending compliance to God's will. Instead, the Devil or "evil one" is portrayed as having the power to seduce those who accepted the Holy Spirit, making them into apostates. The end for these "apostates" is God's retribution.

Hebrews 6:4-8 RSV

"For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they COMMIT APOSTASY, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt."

James 4:7

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you."

James 5:19

"My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins."

1 Peter 5: 8

"Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith...And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace...will himself restore, establish and strengthen you.

Peter condemns Christian apostates who return to the world, turning their backs on Christ's gift and message:

2 Peter 2:20-21

"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them."

Ezekiel sees a restoration of Israel and Judah to their lands accompanying the release from Exile, when God pours forth his Holy Spirit on his people, guaranteeing they will dwell forever in their Promised Land. Contra Ezekiel, Christians look forward to the destruction of the earth in fire, and a new heavens and new earth in which only the righteous dwell:

2 Peter 3:12

"...waiting for...the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells."

Ezekiel stated God would not allow back into the Promised Land those who were unrepentant. Those he did allow in would receive his holy spirit ending forever any more rebellion to his will. Christianity sees false prophets ('rebels" to God's will) among Christians to be wary of.

1 John 4: 1-3

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world."

I note that the Holy Spirit speaking via John and -contra 2 Peter 2:20-21- claims Christians are incapable of sinning beause God does not sin and his Holy Sprit is in them. For John this is a sign that those Christians who are engaged in sinful acts do not have the Holy Spirit :

1 John 3:8

"HE WHO COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. NO ONE BORN OF GOD COMMITS SIN; FOR GOD'S NATURE ABIDES IN HIM AND HE CANNOT SIN BECAUSE HE IS BORN OF GOD. By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: WHOEVER DOES NOT DO RIGHT IS NOT OF GOD, nor he who does not love his brother."

If we were to apply the definition of 1 John 3:8 to Christianity through the ages, including the present time, NO one would qualify as being a "real" Christian as all DO SIN.

The Holy Spirit seems to "contradict itself in the following verse which declares that Christians do indeed sin:

1 John 1:8-10 RSV

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins...If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

How can the Holy Spirit "be real" in contradicting itself, claiming Christians possessing it CANNOT SIN (1 John 3:8) and yet they DO SIN (1 John 1:8-10) ? How can the Holy Spirit "be real" if it informs Ezekiel that people possessing it will obey all of God's laws, ordinances and statutes, yet Paul claims Christians are _not_ to observe any of them ? Clearly the contradicting claims made by the alleged Holy Spirit are evidence this is "not real," only a fable.

The New Testament declares that for one's sins to be forgiven by God, one must first confess that Christ is the son of God and then be baptized into his death. That is to say, that ONLY the sacrifice of God's first-born and only begotten son can secure forgiveness of sin.

This notion seems to be contradicted by the prophet Micah. It appears that Micah understands that to be reconciled to God and forgiven for one's sins, the sacrifice of one's firstborn is NOT acceptable, God desires instead from an individual, "justice, loving kindness and to walk humbly with God."

Micah 6:6-8 RSV

"With what shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before God on HIgh? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old? Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has shown you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?"

Micah goes on to assure Israel that God will forgive them their trespasses against him:

Micah 7: 18-20 RSV

"Who is a God like thee, pardoning iniquity and passing over transgression for the remnant of his inheritance? He does not retain his anger for ever because he delights in steadfast love. He will again have compassion upon us, he will tread our iniquities under foot. Thou wilt cast all our sins into the depths of the sea. Thou wilt show faithfulness to Jacob and steadfast love to Abraham as thou hast sworn to our fathers from the days of old."

I find it difficult on the basis of Micah 6:6-8 to "embrace" the Christian notion that Jesus Christ, the firstborn and only begotten son of God _had to die_ inorder for man to be reconciled to God and have his sins forgiven.

Along a similar note is the Jewish concept of God's ANNUAL forgiveness of Israel's sins on Yom Kippur. The following is extracted from a brochure accompanying a Medal issued by the Israeli Government Coins and Medals Corporation of Jerusalem explaining Yom Kippur's significance:

"Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, the tenth day of the month of Tishri

according to the Jewish claendar, is unique in its holiness ("the Sabbath of

Sabbaths" - a day of solemn rest" as it is called in Leviticus 23:32). The

Jews were granted this holiest of days at Mount Sinai while receiving the

Torah. It was then that they became a people. The significance of Yom

Kippur, as it appears on the medal, is to serve as a vehicle for the group

forgiveness of a holy nation (the Jewish people) on a holy day (the Day of

Atonement). And in fact, to forgive each individual for his sins. This day

is the climax of the ten days of repentance which begins with the Rosh

Hashana holiday (the New Year) and culminates with the Day of Atonement.

The Torah declares that on Yom Kippur all sins will be forgiven: "for on

this day shall atonement be made for you, TO CLEANSE YOU; FROM _ALL_ YOUR SINS

SHALL YE BE CLEAN BEFORE THE LORD." (Leviticus 16:30).

But our sages have interpreted that those sins made by man against the Lord will be pardoned, while those mades against a fellow man will be forgiven only upon direct reconciliation between man and his fellow man."

Christians understand that Christ in his role as THE WORD or LOGOS is the God of the Old Testament who made Adam and Eve and who spoke to Moses, and who spoke to the prophets via a Holy Spirit. Why did Christ tell his people in Leviticius 16:30 he would cleanse them of ALL THEIR SINS _once a year_ on Yom Kippur, then CHANGE HIS MIND in the New Testament and declare sins can be forgiven ONLY by being baptized into his death? In other words why is CHRIST or the HOLY SPIRIT_CONTRADICTING_ himself/itself ?

The notion that God graciously forgives the sins of ALL Israel once a year at Yom Kippur, in addition to Micah's statement that God will NOT accept a "first-born" sacrifice of a human-being, seems to me, to effectively _negate_ Christianity's claims that Christ HAD TO DIE in order to obtain forgiveness of sins for mankind from God.

According to Christian claims, the God of the Old Testament is Jesus Christ in the role of The Logos, "The Word." Why would Christ as "The Logos" via Micah, declare to his people that the shed blood of a Human Sacrifice is unacceptable to God in forgiving sins, ONLY righteous behavior is acceptable?

Christianity teaches that with Adam's fall sin entered into the world and that all of Adam's descendants are tainted with this sin, and only Christ's sacrifice upon the cross can end the cycle of sin for the generations yet to come. This Christian notion seems to be contradicted by Ezekiel who appears to be of the understanding that God does not charge the sons with the father's sins:

Ezekiel 18:1-20 RSV

"The word of the Lord came to me again: "What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'? As I live, says the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins shall die. If a man is righteous and does what is lawful and right- if he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor's wife or approach a woman in her time of impurity, does not oppress any one, but restores to the debtor his pledge, commits no robbery, gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with a garment, does not lend at interest or take any increase, witholds his hand from iniquity, executes true justice between man and man, WALKS IN MY STATUTES, AND IS CAREFUL TO OBSERVE MY ORDINANCES- he is righteous, he shall surely live, says the Lord God... THE SON SHALL NOT SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE FATHER. NOR THE FATHER SUFFER FOR THE INIQUITY OF THE SON; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

Ezekiel suggests that the father's sins do _not_ transfer to the sons, yet Christianity teaches just the opposite: Adam's fall and sin is transferred to all his descendants until Christ appears to end the cycle of sin:

Romans 5:18-19 RSV

"...as one man's [Adam's] trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness [Christ] leads to acquittal and life for all men. For by one man's disobedience [Adam's] many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience [Christ's] many will be made righteous."

Ezekiel seems to also suggest that the "righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself" that is to say, the father's righteousness _cannot be transferred to his son_, excusing the son of his sins. Yet this is just what Christianty argues! Christ's righteousness _is transferred_ to his son, the Church. That is to say, Christ's righteousness has "fufilled the Law" and Christians are to no longer attempt their own righteousness by obeying the Law nor the Ordinances! Why did Christ as "the Word" or Logos via the Holy Spirit have Ezekiel utter these words which _contradict_ Christian teachings?

I am a Secular Humanist, a non-believer. It it seems apparent to me that the New Testament authors have set out a program to nullify, point by point everything held as Holy and binding on man in the Old Testament. That is to say Christianity is refuting, denying and challenging the Old Testaments' portrayal of how man is to honor God.

Christianity teaches that for an individual to receive God's Holy Spirit he must first confess Christ is the son of God and the Lord and be baptized into his death. This notion is contradicted by several passages in the Old Testament where a number of men receive God's Spirit.

Bezalel of the tribe of Judah recieves the "Spirit of God" giving him the ability to devise designs in gold, silver and bronze for the Tabernacle in the Sinai wilderness (Ex 31:1-4). Moses mentions God's prophets having God's spirit (Nu 11:24-29). Balaam has God's Spirit (Nu 24:2). Joshua has the Lord's Spirit (Nu 27:18). Othniel receives God's Spirit (Judges 3:9-10). Jephthah receives God's Spirit (Judges 11:29). Samson receives the Spirit of the Lord (Judges 14:6). Saul receives the Spirit of the Lord (1Samuel 10:6). David receives the Spirit of the Lord (1 Samuel 16:14). Azariah receives the Sprit of the Lord (2 Chron 15:1). Zechariah receives the Spirit of the Lord (2 Chron 24:20). Ezekiel receives the Spirit of the Lord (Ez 2:2).

It is quite clear from these passages that the "Spirit of the Lord" _does not promise immortality in a life after death_ to an individual, it imparts only wisdom, strength, valor and fortitude. In no case is the "Lord's Spirit" in the Old Testament portrayed as waging war against Satan and his Demons; the enemies Jepthah, Saul and David face are merely mortal men not antagonistic supernatural powers. In no case is the "Spirit of the Lord" DENIED these men because they have not "first" confessed Christ is the son of God and been baptised into his death. In no case are these men informed that having received "the Spirit of the Lord" that they are now _absolved_ of any further obedience to God's Commandments, Ordinances, and Statutes as claimed by Paul.

The BIG ISSUE HERE is _WHY_ was Jesus Christ as the "Logos or Word" in the Old Testament WILLING to (1) dispense "the Lord's Spirit" on his people and (2) absolve them of ALL their sins "annually" with Yom Kippur, then WITHDRAWS all this in the New Testament claiming that only those who believe in Christ and are baptised in his name can receive the "Lord's Spirit" and absolvement of their sins? Can a house divided against itself stand?

As is quite clear from all of the above, there was NO NEED for Christ's birth and death, for he had set up in his role as the LOGOS a system for forgiving his people their sins annually with Yom Kippur, and had already given some individuals the Lord's Spirit (Saul, David, the Prophets), and via Ezekiel had announced ALL his people upon the end of a 40 year exile would receive the "Lord's Spirit" WITHOUT THE BIRTH, DEATH, AND SACRIFICE OF GOD'S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.

From my studies of the Old Testament it seems that the Torah or Law delivered by God via Moses at Mount Sinai was within the capacity of mankind (the Hebrews) to obey according to prophets like Moses and Jeremiah. Micah certainly suggests this:

Micah 6:8 RSV

"...what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?"

Yet, according to Ezekiel, only after the nation is given God's Holy Spirit will they be able to whole-heartedly obey him. That is to say God CONNED his people! He set before them a Law that was impossible for them to obey because they did not have his Holy Spirit. Because they didn't obey, God's anger consumed them repeatedly over some 2000 years in that foreign nations afflicted them with war and exile. How can one argue that God is "ethical and just" if he sets before his people a task that they cannot achieve because he has denied them his Holy Spirit? He promised via Ezekiel to give them his Holy Spirit at the conclusion of a 40 year exile upon their return to the land and the rebuilding of the waste places. God RENEGED ON HIS PROMISE. The books of Ezra and Nehemiah reveal that his peoples still violated the Sabbath and married foreign women, God obviously had not given his people his Holy Spirit to enable them to obey him and keep his Torah. God is cruel, sadistic, unjust and untrustworthy.

Had he truly loved his people he would not have set them up for a fall, giving him an excuse to cruelly and sadistically afflict them repeatedly with disease, famines and wars.

Here's another example of the Holy Spirit CONTRADICTING ITSELF, declaring that anyone of Moabite descent for all eternity is _not_ to be allowed into God's Holy Assembly, and this _irrevocable ban_ applies to both King David and Jesus Christ because they have Moabite blood lines:

Nehemiah 13:1-3 RSV

"On that day they read from the book of Moses in the hearing of the people; and in it was found written that NO AMMONITE OR _MOABITE_ SHOULD _EVER_ ENTER THE ASSEMBLY OF GOD; for they did not meet the children of Israel with bread and water, but hired Balaam against them to curse them- yet our God turned the curse into a blessing. WHEN THE PEOPLE HEARD THE LAW, _THEY SEPARATED FROM ISRAEL _ ALL_ THOSE OF FOREIGN DESCENT."

The Holy Spirit speaking through Moses is quite clear no one of Moabite descent is ever, for all eternity, to be allowed to enter the assembly of God. They are accursed by God forever (all eternity), not even to the tenth generation are they allowed to enter. Note: A "generation" can be reckoned as 25 years or 40 years. Multiplied by 10 this means 250 or 450 years into the future the ban would have been in effect had Moabites been allowed in after the passage of the 10th generation. However, the ban is "forever," not until the 10th generation.

Deuteronomy 23:3 RSV

"NO Ammonite or _MOABITE_ SHALL ENTER THE ASSEMBLY OF THE LORD, _EVEN_ TO THE TENTH GENERATION _NONE_ BELONGING TO THEM SHALL ENTER THE ASSEMBLY OF THE LORD _FOREVER_; because they did not meet you with bread and water on the way, when you came forth out of Egypt, and because they hired against you Balaam the son of Beor...to curse you."

The problem? If, in Ezra's days, the 5th century BC, NO ONE OF MOABITE DESCENT IS TO BE ADMITTED IN TO THE ASSEMBLY OF GOD, then how can Christ be the Messiah? Christ's genealogy is traced back to King David, who was himself OF MOABITE DESCENT.

That is to say both David and Christ ARE ACCURSED BY GOD because of their Moabite ancestry via Ruth the Moabite who married Boaz, cf. Ruth 4:13-22 and 1 Chronicles 2:1-15 enumerating King David's descent from Ruth the Moabite. In David's case, he is a "3rd generation Moabite" in descent, he should NEVER had been allowed to be Israel's king or Messiah.

cf. also Christ's descent from David in Matthew 1:1-6, which also mentions Boaz as David's ancestor and Ruth being his ancestress.

Matthew 1:5-6 RSV

"...and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, and BOAZ the father of Obed BY RUTH, and Obed the father of Jesses, and Jesse the father of David the king."

Clearly the Holy Spirit is very muddled in declaring no one of Moabite descent is _EVER_ to enter the Holy Assembly of God (much less be God's Messiah) according to Nehemiah 13:1-3, and yet both David and Jesus are of Moabite descent. The Holy Sirit has quite clearly CONTRADICTED ITSELF in allowing men of Moabite descent to be God's Messiah or "annointed" and members of God's Holy Assembly.

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13 November 2005 Update:

Ezekiel is confronted with a serious problem as a prophet, why should his audience, "the house of Israel" or the Jews, believe anything he has to say? He notes a proverb (Ez 12:21-28) that prophecies are frequently of a failed nature and often for a period so far into the future as to have "no immediacy" for the audience being addressed. He repeats constantly to his audience that _WHEN_ God has accomplished the predicted events, _THEN_ Israel _WILL KNOW_ God is real, and that a true prophet has spoken, not a false one. Please note, Ezekiel hammers "over and over again" that Israel WILL KNOW _WHEN_ God FULFILLS THE PROPHECY! That is to say, the only way for a person "to know" if a prophet is false or not is to wait for the prophecy's fulfillment (cf. De 18:21-22).

Ezekiel stresses to his audience that his prophecies are unlike others (other false prophets) for

God _will not delay_ in fulfilling them, the events will take place in the audiences' lifetime, at the end of a 40 year Babylonian Exile (Ez 4:6). Ezekiel's prophecies are dated as late as the 30th year of the Exile (Ez 1:1), so apparently his "last missive" is just 10 years before the predicted release of Judah from the Captivity (Ez 4:6).

Ezekiel gives very detailed information regarding "when" Israel's and Judah's Exile or Captivity will come to an end. The data, however, is conflicting. The Holy Spirit informs Ezekiel that the former kingdom of Israel's punishment is 390 years (Ez 4:5) while Judah's is only 40 years (Ez 4:6). Israel's Exile under the Assyrians is generally dated circa 721 B.C., subtract 390 years and we have a restoration circa 331 B.C., which almost coincides with Alexander the Great's defeat of the Persian empire ca. 330 BCE. Judah's captivity appears to be either the first deportation in 598 B.C. (cf. Esther 2:6; Matthew 1:11), or more commonly the second deportation in 587 B.C. (cf. p. 186. Vol. 2. J. A. Sanders. "Exile." George Arthur Buttrick, et. al. The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, An Illustrated Encyclopedia. Nashville, Tennesse. Abingdon Press. 1962). 598 or 587 B.C. minus 40 years gives a restoration from Exile circa 558 or 547 B.C.

Ez 40:1 is dated the 25th year of Exile, and 14th year after the fall of Jerusalem. Jerusalem fell in the 12th year of the Exile (Ez 33:21). Ezekiel stated Judah's punishment by God would be 40 years (Ez 4:6). Apparently Ezekiel expects that in just another 15 years his people will be set free by God and restored to their lands. Jerusalem's final fall to the Babylonians was circa 587 B.C., subtracting 15 years from this date suggests to me a restoration circa 572 B.C.; if one wants to calculate 40 years of punishment from 587 B.C. the restoration would be circa 547 B.C. Babylon fell to Cyrus of Persia ca. 539/538 B.C., who allowed the captured nations to return to their homelands. Irregardless of whatever chronology one "wants to use" for Ezekiel's concept of a restoration after 40 years, it is quite clear the event was envisioned for some time within the 6th century B.C. for Judah.

Ez 12:21-28 RSV

"Son of man, what is this proverb that you have about the land of Israel saying, 'The days grow long, and every vision comes to nought'? Tell them therefore, 'Thus says the Lord God: I will put an end to this proverb, and they shall no more use it as a proverb in Israel.' But say to them, the days are at hand, and the fulfillment of every vision. For there shall be no more any false vision of flattering divination within the house of Israel. But I the Lord will speak the word which I will speak, and it will be performed. It will no longer be delayed, but in your days, O rebellious house, I will speak the word and perform it says the Lord God. Again the word of the Lord came to me: "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel, prophesy and say to those who prophesy out of their own minds: 'Hear the word of the Lord!" Thus says the Lord God, woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!...They have spoken falsehood and divined a lie; they say, 'Says the Lord', when the Lord has not sent them, and yet they expect him to fulfil their word."

Israel will "know" Ezekiel is a true prophet "when" God restores her to her lands:

Ez 39:25-29 RSV

"Therefore thus says the Lord God: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for my holy name. They shall forget their shame, and all the treachery they have practiced against me, when they dwell securely in their land with none to make them afraid, when I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them from their enemies' lands, and through them vindicated my holiness in the sight of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord their God because I sent them into exile among the nations, and then gathered them into their own land. I will leave none of them remaining among the nations any more; and I will not hide my face any more from them, when I pour out my Spirit upon the house of Israel, says the Lord God."

Israel will "know" Ezekiel is a true prophet when God not only restores them to their lands but ends famines for evermore and breaks the "yoke of servitude" of their oppressor, Babylon. Babylon's "yoke" was sundered in 539 B.C. when Babylon fell to Cyrus of Persia. Yet the house of Israel -the Jews in Judah- suffered famines in Nehemiah's days (cf. Ne 5:1-5), and they were "a prey to the nations" when they were oppressed by the Hellenistic Greeks, the Seleucids of Syria who under Antiochus IV attempted to exterminate Judaism ca. 163 B.C., and the Ptolemies of Egypt who under Ptolemy II captured Jerusalem on a Sabbath day when the Jews refused to defend themselves, hauling thousands of them off to Egypt as slaves, not to mention the Roman Emperors Vespasian ca. 70 A.D. and Hadrian ca. 135 A.D., who sent them into a an exile which would last roughly 1813 years until 1948 A.D. and the re-creation of the modern state of Israel.

Ez 34:25-31

"I will make with them a covenant of peace...they shall be secure in their land; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I break the bars of their yoke, and deliver them from the hand of those who enslaved them. They shall no more be a prey to the nations...they shall dwell securely, and none shall make them afraid. And I will provide for them prosperous plantations so that they shall no more be consumed with hunger in the land, and no longer suffer the reproach of the nations. And they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are my people, says the Lord God. And you are my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, and I am your God, says the Lord God."

Israel will know Ezekiel is a true prophet when God gives them his Holy Spirit, to walk in his ways, no more famine and the desolate land is restored. Judah did return under Cyrus after 538 B.C. (2 Chronicles 36:20-23) but the land was still experiencing famines as late as the days of Ezra and Nehemiah, times being so desperate that lands and children were being sold by the poor to get by (Ne 5:1-5).

Ez 36:22-37

"Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them; and the nations will know that I am the Lord, says the Lord God, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes. For I will take you from the nations, and gather you from all countries and bring you into your land. And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleanesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you, and an new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. You shall dwell in the land which I gave to your fathers; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. And I will deliver you from all your uncleanesses; and I will summon the grain and make it abundant and lay no famine on you. I will make the fruit of the tree and the increase of the field abundant, that you may never again suffer the disgrace of famine among the nations. Then you will remember your evil ways, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominable deeds. It is not for your sake that I will act, says the Lord God; let that be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel. Thus says the Lord God: On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places shall be rebuilt. And the land that was desolate shall be tilled, instead of being the desolation that it was in the sight of all who passed by. And they will say, 'This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are now inhabitated and fortified.' Then the nations that are left round about you shall know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places, and replanted that which was desolate; I, the Lord, have spoken, and I will do it."

Conclusions:

Ezekiel realized that Israel had been lied to so many times in the past by so-called false prophets that she had grown tired of hearing "alleged" messages from God! Ezekiel also acknowledged Israel's skepticism with prophets because the predicted events were frequently many years into the future thus having no immediacy for the audience, and usually failed to come about.

I cannot fathom Ezekiel's claim that God will act in 40 years time to restore his people to their lands and break the Babylonian yoke they bore as having "any immediacy" for his audience. I can imagine the Jewish audiences' reaction to Ezekiel: Ho-hum! Another false prophet "padding" his predictions with events to transpire 40 years into the future! The 40 years came and went, and Ezekiel's prophecies did _not_ come about. He was a false prophet. What he "thought" was God's Holy Spirit talking to him were only his own vain imaginings! There is no Holy Spirit, for had it been real it would have vindicated Ezekiel, but it didn't. So Ezekiel's foolish prattle to his jaded, skeptical Israelite (Jewish) audience was probably "rightly" ignored by these people. That audience had been assured by Ezekiel via God's Holy Spirit that God would NOT DELAY, he would accomplish his promises in their lifetimes, within the next 40 years, not 500 years later "after their deaths," in the days of the Roman Emperors Augustus and Tiberius Caesar with a Jewish preacher called Jesus of Nazareth.

We have seen that the Holy Spirit made "numerous errors" via Ezekiel. It claimed that Judah's punishment in Exile would end in 40 years time, that Babylon would thereupon fall and God would replant his people in their land. He would give them his Spirit so that they would forevermore keep his commandmants, statutes, sabbaths, and ordinances, guaranteeing they would always obey him and thus never ever again be sent into another Exile. Ezekiel speaking via the Holy Spirit, stated that God would metaphorically wash with water the sins of his people away, and forgive them. This event would occur upon the restoration to their lands and the rebuilding of the desolate places, the cities and towns. The nation did not receive God's Holy Spirit, they still married foreign women and worked on the Sabbath (Ezra 10:11; Nehemiah 13:15,-18; 23). The Romans drove the Jews into Exile in two rebellions, circa 70 and 135 A.D. (the first under the Roman Emperors Nero and Vespasian, the second under Hadrian), only in 1948 A.D. would Israel as a country be "reborn."

The failed prophecies of Ezekiel are important for Christians and Jews to ponder and reflect upon. His prophecies were never fulfilled in the lifetime of his audience, nor to this day, some 2500 years later. That the Holy Spirit or God's Spirit really exists is extremely doubtful, for it had caused Ezekiel to utter failed prophecies.

Christianity and Judaism hold the prophets of the Old Testament in great honor and awe. For Christians, the prophets predicted Christ's birth, mission and resurrection. If the prophets' prophecies are false, as I have demonstrated in several articles on this website, then their ability to predict Christ and his mission are ergo, false as well.

Some Jews and Christians have turned a blind eye to the "immediacy" issue of Ezekiel's prophecies. He was adamant that God would vindicate his Holy Name by accomplishing the predicted events after the elapse of 40 years in Exile for Judah. The attempt by some Christians and Jews to "excuse" Ezekiel's failed prophecies as intended by God for another age, our own, isn't going to wash with me. God had told his people how to recognize a false prophet. Wait for a sign, the fulfillment of the prophecy, which indicates its fulfillment is in their lifetime, not hundreds or thousands of years into the future. Both Rabbis and Christian Preachers or Ministers to this day ignore God's warning, "Do not believe until the prophecy is fulfilled" (De 18:21-22). They teach _contra God's warning_ their congregations that the prophecies of the Old and or New Testaments that were not fulfilled in those audiences' days, will be fulfilled in the present day.

Partial fulfillment of a prophecy carries no wieght with me. For God's prophets to be vindicated and their prophecies being true, they must be fulfilled _exactly in the manner predicted_ and _in the audience's lifetime_. For me, God should be all-powerful, and able to cross all his t's and dot all the i's, that is to say nothing is in error, everything transpired exactly as predicted down to the smallest detail!

Some may want to argue that a 6th century B.C. Israel was "unworthy" thus God changed his mind, and did not implement the prophecies. I don't buy this argument because God announced that he would forgive his people their sins against him, and that he was doing this not for their sakes, but for his own glory. Israel couldn't do anything to "earn" God's redemption.

Ez 36:22, 32 RSV

Ezekiel had "tied" God's hands, he had boldly proclaimed God would accomplish the prophecies at the elapse of a 40 year Exile of Judah, sometime in the 6th century B.C. Although there was a return from the Exile in the 6th century B.C. other details were unfulfilled. Famine stalked the land. God did not give the returnees his Holy Spirit as they still profaned his Sabbath by working and marrying foreign women. Eventually the Romans sent the returnees' descendants into Exile, an event which was not supposed to ever happen according to the Holy Spirit speaking via Ezekiel.

The Christian claim is that one "has died" via baptism and become one with Christ in death, and thus one is "dead to sin." For me this is doubletalk. No-one is dead to sin. With the so-called Holy Spirit dwelling within the Christian he still sins, so he is obviously_not_ dead to sin.

Christianty understands a person having received the Holy Spirit, still has the power (self-will) to turn his back on it and rejoin the non-Christian world. This notion is the _antithesis_ of Ezekiel's understanding. Once God has poured out his Holy Spirit on the those whom he allows to return to the land from the Exile they will never ever again sin against God, nor will their descendants. The Holy Spirit is an "all-powerful-tyrant," it simply will NOT allow sin to happen, for God does not sin. Yet Christianity claims those possessed of the Holy Spirit can OVERPOWER this spirit with their will and return to the lusts and greed of the world! A Christian by definition has the Holy Spirit in him via baptism. If he is still sinning he has no Holy Spirit. If he still sins AND possesses the Holy Spirit then the Holy Spirit is quite a "weakling" in its inability to cause man to end his sinning. Ezekiel understands that the Laws, Ordinances, and Statutes will be obeyed. Paul says none are to be observed. Having a Holy Spirit in you and NOT obeying the Laws, Ordinances and Statutes because you are intuitively doing the "right thing" is like mixing apples and oranges, they are different concepts. Either the Holy Spirit has the power to end for all time man's sinning as well as his descendants (as Ezekiel claims, for he doesn't envision God pouring out his Holy Spirit from generation to generation on a "confessional personal basis" like Christianity) or it doesn't have this power (as ackowledged by the Christians).

Christians claim the Holy Spirit can be obtained ONLY via baptism and accepting Christ as the son of God _VERSUS_ the Hebraic concept, the Holy Spirit is poured out on the nation, NOT because they confessed Jesus is God and they have been baptised into his death, but because God is gracious and is defending his Holy Name which has been profaned by Israel in the Exile. In other words, Christians MUST EARN salvation through resisting Satan _after receiving_ the Holy Spirit VERSUS Israel is SAVED because she has the Holy Spirit and God will TEMPT HER or future generations NO MORE (Why should God tempt God?). Christians claim they can still RESIST the Holy Spirit and OVERPOWER it _versus_ the Hebraic concept that the Holy Spirit CANNOT be OVERPOWERED for all eternity, even future generations will be born with the Holy Spirit in them at birth, so that they will automatically observe Torah and possess forever the Holy Land. Christians claim that this life is a contest to prove one's loyalty to God by resisting Satan; they can expect "only tribulation in this life", their rewards will be after death _VERSUS_ the Hebraic notion that REWARDS are IMMEDIATE, NOT DEFERRED, once the Holy Spirit is in Israel God will shower them in their lifetimes with wealth, health and victory over their enemies- they will NOT have "to prove their loyalty" via trials against the Devil and Demons because God's Holy Spirit is in them and God has no need to tempt his own Holy Spirit.

In essence, I understand that everything Christianity teaches about the Holy Spirit is the ANTITHESIS of the Hebraic concepts as presented by Ezekiel.

15 Nov. 2005 Update:

Ezekiel said Judah would be restored from the Captivity in 40 years (Ez 29:13). God announced via Isaiah that because he was a merciful and forgiving God, he would "pardon" his people's trespass against him! He would put his holy spirit in them (Isa 44:3) guaranteeing they would never again trespass against him. God did not keep his promise. He did not give them his Holy Spirit upon restoring his people to their land under Cyrus. They were oppressed by the Seleucid Greeks and Ptolemies as well as the Romans who drove them from their land for rebellions in 70 and 135 A.D. Yet God had assured his people with the restoration they would no longer be oppressed, because HIS Holy Spirit would be poured out on the nation making it posible for them to keep his Torah and never again be expelled from their "promised" land.

One of the _most glaring_ of the many failed prophecies appearing in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), is Yahweh's declaration that upon the restoration of his people from the Babylonian Exile, that he will NOT PERMIT the rebels among his people to return to the "Promised Land"! He will liberate them from the Babylonian Captivity, but they will NOT be permitted "a return" to their ancestral lands.

As we learn from the books of Ezra and Nehemiah, this declaration from Yahweh was NOT realized, as the people who did return and settle in Judah continued violating the Torah (Law) by marrying foreign women and violating the Sabbath. Had Yahweh prevented such "rebels" from re-entering the land these Torah-violating practices would never have arisen. That is to say, the alleged Holy Sprit that inspired Ezekiel to utter these words was quite wrong, rebels to the Torah DID RETURN TO THE LAND and subvert Torah authority. God was apparently _impotent_ in keeping such rascals out. And, had God poured out His Holy Spirit on those whom He allowed to return, as He had promised via Ezekiel, the re-admitted "non-rebels" would NOT have engaged in anti-Torah behaviors. Ezekiel was quite "specific" about WHEN God would pour out His Holy Spirit on his people, and cleanse them of their inquities, it would occur upon the return to the land and the rebuilding of the ruined cities. It is an established fact that under Cyrus, the Jews were allowed to return to their lands and they did rebuild the desolated places. Yet Yahweh failed to keep his oath, he allowed rebels to return to the land and continue defying Torah by violating the Sabbath and marrying foreign wives.

Ezekiel 20:33-34, 38 RSV

"As I live, says the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand and outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, I will be king over you. I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out...I WILL PURGE OUT THE REBELS FROM AMONG YOU, and those who transgress against me; I will bring them out of the land where they sojourn, BUT THEY SHALL NOT ENTER THE LAND OF ISRAEL. Then you will know that I am the Lord."

Ezekiel 36:24-28, 33-36 RSV

For I will take you from the nations, and gather you from all the countries, and bring you back to your own land. And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleanesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND BE CAREFUL TO OBSERVE MY ORDINANCES. You shall dwell in the land which I gave your fathers; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. And I will deliver you from all your uncleanesses...Thus says the Lord God: ON THE DAY I CLEANSE YOU FROM ALL YOUR INQUITIES, I WILL CAUSE THE CITIES TO BE INHABITATED AND THE WASTE PLACES TO BE REBUILT. And the land that was desolate shall be tilled...Then the nations that are left round about you shall know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places, and replanted that which was desolate; I the Lord, have spoken, and I will do it."

Judaism, by turning a "blind-eye" to the timetable (the return from the Babylonian Captivity being the event) set by the prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel, regarding "just when" Yahweh would accomplish His promises as noted by Moses in Dueteronomy 30:1-10, a restoration of the nation to its lands and His keeping out rebels, and pouring out His Holy Spirit on the remnant allowed to return by Him, has kept alive for centuries the failed promise of ALL Israel one day in the future being gathered from from all over the world to dwell in its "promised land." Judaism has also empoyed another "flawed methodology", the ignoring of God's alleged statement that they are NOT TO BELIEVE UNTIL THE PROPHECY IS FULFILLED. For over 2000 years the prophecies of the prophets regarding Israel's restoration have remained unfulfilled, yet the Rabbis encourage their people to believe in the prophets CONTRARY to God's warning that the only way to know if a prophecy is false is that it is not fulfilled in the lifetime of the audience hearing it.

Is there a "way out" for Bible-believers (Jews and Christians) regarding the failed prophecies? Perhaps. They could argue that God can change His mind at any time and He is not answerable to anyone for His decision NOT to follow the timetable of a restoration from the Babylonian Exile of 40 years (Ez 4:6) or of 70 years (Jer 29:10). The problem? If we allow this as "an excuse," then what point is there in studying Old and New Testament prophecies as "proofs" God really exists? They are meaningless if God can "change His mind" and decide NOT to implement the prophecies _in the lifetimes of the audiences hearing them_, thus NULLIFYING His advice via the Holy Spirit to His people that the ONLY way to know if a prophet is false or not, is to NOT BELIEVE until the prophecy is fulfilled (De 18:20-22).

06 Dec 2005 Update (an exchange with an individual on the Holy Spirit):

Walter had written:

Christianty understands a person having received the Holy Spirit,

still has the power (self-will) to turn his back on it and rejoin

the non-Christian world.

XXXXXX responds:

That's right. If the person didn't still have the power to turn his

back on it and rejoin the non-Christian world, then the receipt of

the Holy Spirit would include the loss of free will never to be

regained. Of course, this is wrong.

Walter replies:

Well we do agree on one point, the reception of the Holy Spirit by

Israel, causing her to not sin is in a sense an END of "free will."

Christ is alleged to have said "Not my will but thine (God's) be

done." Here his will is subordinated to the will of God. How can

Israel possess the land for ever if she continues sinning? She

can't. Why couldn't she stop sinning? She didn't have God's Holy

Spirit. How can she continue sinning and have God's Spirit? Israel

loses her free will (the power to sin). It is no longer what Israel

wills but what the Holy Spirit wills -free will no longer exists

(that's why I call it a tyrant).

XXXXXX said:

If God was going to give man

free will, why would Catholics take that free will away with their

initial sacrament? Of course, they don't.

Christianity understands an adult as receiving the Holy Spirit

through an act of the will, not an act of the Holy Spirit.

Walter replies:

The New Testament declares that an individual must "believe" Christ

is the son of God, and be baptized into his death, symbolically his

Free Will is killed in the waters of baptism, a type of watery

grave. When he rises from the waters of death he is now "dead" he

has now the Holy Spirit replacing his Free Will. The reality? The

Holy Spirit has NOT replaced man's Free Will, its still there,

defying God and sinning. This is where Christianity _differs_ from

Ezekiel, he does not see Israel "sinning" after the reception of the

Holy Spirit and thus losing her Promised Land. Christianity -more

realistically- "acknowledges sinning is still going on" among

individuals after their baptism and reception of the Holy Spirit.

How to account for this enigma? Christianity accounts for

this "anomaly" by positing _CONTRA Ezekiel_ that the Holy Spirit

cannot "end" man's Free Will, replacing it with the Spirit's Will.

So, Christianity now has an explanation for the phenomenon

of "apostate Christians" who have triumphed over the Holy Spirit by

excercising their Free Wills. If the Hebrews had bought "into" this

Christian notion, then Israel would have lost her Promised Land

because she still would be able to sin against God.

As I noted earlier, the Holy Spirit is given to the nation upon its

return from the Babylonian Exile. It is NOT given on an individual

case by case confession Christ is the son of God followed by baptism

into his death. You suggest this is "elitist," the Holy Spirit being

given ONLY to Israel, whereas you apparently think Christianity's

notion is "superior" and non-elitist because gentiles can receive

the Holy Spirit if they confess Christ is the son of God and are

baptized. You sound like a Christian apologist, are you ?

Christianity gets its "elitism" from Israel- ONLY Christians will

be "saved" the rest of humanity is consigned to hell-fire and

eternal torment.

Ezekiel does NOT see God "tempting" Israel anymore with false

prophets, for now she has his Holy Spirit. Christianity begs to

differ, Christians must excercise their free wills to resist the

Devil and his demons and "EARN" salvation by striving against their

free will which wants to sin (a foreign notion to Ezekiel).

For me this Holy Spirit nonsense (Hebraic or Christian or Buddhist)

is just a bunch of philosophical double-talk, it doesn't exist.

All religions have come to realize man's suffering is caused by free-

will, man's desire to triumph over his fellowman, what Darwin so

correctly called "the struggle of the species." All societies seek

to control non-social behaviors by various means. The concept of

self-negation, denying the desire to sin (free will), is promoted as

right and wrong. Animals have no sense of right and wrong they do

whatever their (free) will wants. For me man is an animal who has

fooled himself into believing in a God and and a Holy Spirit in

order to control his fellow man.

Freewill for me is the power to choose to do right and wrong. The

prophets understand that after receiving God's Holy Spirit that

Israel will ALWAYS do RIGHT and NEVER do WRONG. If she "has the

power to do wrong" and NEVER excercises this power, then I see _no_

freewill here.

Isa 60:21 RSV

"Your people SHALL BE RIGHTEOUS; they shall possess the land FOR

EVER...that I might be glorified."

60:15 RSV

"...I will make you majestic FOR EVER, a joy from age to age..."

I see NOTHING here about Israel _ever excercising_ the option to do

WRONG, for if she had that option, why is she _UNABLE_ to excercise

it? If she excercises the will to do WRONG she will then "make a

fool of God," for he has declared she will be a joy to him for ever

through all future generations.

Ez 36:26-29 RSV

"A new heart I will give you, and a NEW SPIRIT I will put within

you...I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN IN _AND CAUSE YOU_ to walk in my

statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. You shall dwell in

the land which I gave to your fathers; and you shall be my people,

and I will be your God. And I will deliver you from all your

uncleannesses..."

I do NOT understand Israel's freewill is being excercised in obeying

God's laws and ordinances, for God says ... I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT

WITHIN IN _AND CAUSE YOU..."How can Israel "choose to obey God if

_God is CAUSING_ her to obey him via his Spirit?

As I have said before, the Hebrew prophets do not see Israel ever

sinning again against God and thus losing her land again _contra_

the Christian notion that the Holy Spirit _cannot_ prevent apostasy

and the exercising of a free will.

The Holy Spirit is accepted as REAL among all Chistians. ALL

branches of Christianity, be they Catholic or Protestant all claim

this Holy Spirit guides them in correct doctrines. Yet these

doctrines CONTRADICT each other from church to church. It is quite

clear to me that if the Holy Spirit is incapable of _contradicting_

itself, then the contradicting dogmas and articles of faith which

vary from denomination to denomination would have to be all wrong

and under Satan's power, he being the "father of error and

contradiction." Under this paradigm, only ONE denomination is

obeying the Holy Spirit. But which? The failed prophecies of the

Bible, Old Testament as well as New Testament are "proof" for me that the Holy

Spirit does not exist, for it caused the prophets to err.

Regards, Walter

Inerrancy Claims for the Bible ("Whistling in the Dark")

Those who believe the Bible is the word of God make the claim it is consequently _inerrant_ and posseses no error. Any finding of Science, Archaeology, Anthropology, or Geologogy which "contradicts" Holy Writ is automatically wrong.

Is the Bible really "inerrant"? It exists in several recensions in today's world. Today's Jews tend to use the Massoretic Text; the Samartitans have their own text which consists only of the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Hebrew Bible); the Greek Orthodox Christians use a Greek Septuaginta translation made in the 3rd century BCE by Jews for Jews at Alexandria, Egypt; Syrian Christians use an "Aramaic" text called the "Peshitta&q